I don't get this, is this for or against Obama. Everything here he has overseen as figurehead as well as Bush. Gitmo still going, slaughter through the middle east still going, economy sucks. Wow Bush & Obama look a lot the same.
That's the rub. There is no difference between Obama and Bush. Two different parties, same result. Vote independent. Punk likes the Green Party, I like the Libertarian Party. One thing for certain is that the Republican and Democratic Party have inbred for too long and are beginning to look like twins.
Enough of this.You cannot expect Obama to turn everything around 180 degrees in less than two years. He's done wrong on several things, yes. He could have done many things much better, but it could also be so much worse. There is no perfection in politics. Never was, never will be.Either Obama wins re-election or the Republicans get the WH back. That is our choice. There is NO other option. PERIOD. A primary challenge, a third party candidate on the left, liberals/progressives not voting at all- none of these things can possibly accomplish anything but hurting Obama and HELPING the fascists. We suck it up and we vote for Obama, because the only alternative is truly unthinkable.I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. You want to change it? Build a COORDINATED movement over the LONG term, an antidote to what corporatists have been doing for 40 years. They put us in this box, but we ARE in it and we have to DEAL with that. Denial is self-destruction.The stakes are too damned high for us to fuck around anymore. We cannot afford to be blind ideologues. We sure as hell can't indulge in pissing matches, let alone yet another of our famous circular firing squads. This country cannot survive another 8 years of Dubya. Or worse.The current crop of Republicans makes him look reasonable. If they take over they will DESTROY this country, do you understand? They will make the worst thing Obama could EVER do look like an episode of the Care Bears. A second Great Depression? Likely. WW3? Even odds. The end of our status as a superpower? A certainty. Becoming a third world country with a permanent peasant class? Or a fascist dictatorship? Or a polluted living hell? All of the above? It's all in the cards. The good news is that we have our best opportunity in decades to reach out to the independents and moderates who decide elections- IF we can speak to them on the issues of our common (usually economic) interest and NOT preach or scream at them. They've seen how crazy and hostile the Republicans are. Let's show them an alternative.Act as if your only choice here is between the ballot box or a pine box. That's probably close enough to the truth.
Obama has been, in most ways, a continuation of "Dubya." I agree, our country cannot take another 8 years of Dubya, or Dubya's policies. Which is why I do not support Obama's re-election.
Yeah I think Obama should just accept the GOP's nomination for president. He can run on his successful record of defeating Obama's agenda. President Obama defeated Obama's pledge to close GITMO, his pledge to end the war in Iraq and bring troops home and more importantly he defeated Obama's helthplan. The right wing didn;t want a public option and Obama delivered for them. He's the first black president, who knew he'd also be a republican?
Rafa, Man, that was classic! Someone should turn that into a campaign parody vid!
Seriously, Rafa... quote of the day.
@Steve Harris... I think you just gave me an idea. I'll see what I can piece together over the coming week.
No. Put down the markers and poster board, kids.If you can't tell the difference between Dubya and Obama, or Obama and the GOP field of candidates, then you have your heads so far up your asses that I guess you couldn't be much help anyway.But if you're not going to help, then just get out of the way. Losing your votes will hurt, but not as much as you actively campaigning against the man out of little more than foolish immature spite- and THAT spite is "like the Republicans".If Obama and the Republicans are exactly the same, if it doesn't matter to you who wins, then just stay out of it. Some of us do care, and we'd rather not have you throwing shit at us while we're trying to actually DO something.Was I happy with Clinton? No, but he was better than Poppy or Dole. Gore or Kerry, for all of their faults, would have been better than Dubya. Here in the real world, we work with what we have because the rest is just a pipe dream. Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.Is it fair? No. Again, if you want to change things, then you're in for the long haul. The wingnuts have been making our politics more wingnutty for 40 years. I'll give you a hint- they didn't do it through constant infighting. One thing they have done is a ton of work on the local level, where we should be much more active, and I mean outside of Manhattan and the Bay Area as well.Our best bet, really our only bet, is a re-elected Obama with a MORE PROGRESSIVE Congress. Maybe then we can push him to the left. Maybe then we can get a real reform and a real stimulus (read: "infrastructure") bill. We can't get anything done now- we've got our hands full with damage control.To be clear, I am NOT excusing Obama's shortcomings, even though I see timidity where you see duplicity. I'm just trying to be realistic about the mess we're in.We held Obama to an unrealistic standard. I did it too, but at least I can see that now. Still, one of the things I love about the man even after all the heartbreak is that he's always the adult in the room. Maybe WE should try to live up to THAT.
Edward, what you see as "being practical" most of us see as "shooting yourself in the foot."I'm not surprised by Obama supporting a GOP agenda. He was funded by Wall Street, in the millions. He is Wall Street's candidate. I don't see timidity, I see duplicity-- thinly veiled at that.If Obama was the person you think he is, he would be providing leadership on this, not continuously caving to GOP demands. You are a fool to say that we don't see the difference between the GOP and Obama. We are taking the long view. We see the difference, we're given the choice between shitty republican (Obama) and crazy republican. Obama is more conservative than Nixon was.
Do you even have a comprehension of how any president can pull troops from a war? Are you even aware that there are PROCEDURES, and VOTES in the House and Senate that would need to get done in order to pull troops from Afghanistan and Iraq? Also, do you realize that pulling out our troops before the countries are stable will only come back to bite us in the ass later?And what specific lies has Obama told? What is your proof that they are lies?
Hey Lemming4Prosperity, you might want to brush up on your legal expertise before spouting off and making a fool of yourself.1) There are absolutely no votes nor procedures that would need to take place in either the House nor Senate. In fact, the absence of a vote to reauthorize funding for the Bush/Obama wars is all that would need take place. When these illegal and immoral wars run out of funds, they would have to end-- either that, or we would TRUELY have an "all volunteer military."2) The President is the Commander in Chief of all US Armed forces, and could, should s/he so desire, command them to march in a circle around the globe. S/He could just as easily call them home from war. It's STARTING and MAINTAINING wars that requires votes and proceedures. The constitution requires that congress vote to authorize war. Every "war" we've fought since WWII has been a "military police action" which is a legal fiction made up to skirt our constitution, and international treaty, which has been unchallenged in the legal arena and allowed to stand as precedent.3) Congress could end all the Bush/Obama wars by simply doing nothing. It's often said that "Congress holds the pursestrings to the nation." And that's true. If congress were simply to refuse appropriating any more funding for the illegal and immoral wars that we are currently in, it would be not unlike saying to a kid throwing a tempter tantrum in the candy aisle, "no, I'm not buying that."As far as "what lies specifically has Obama told." Nobody here said anything about lies here. And it's what he's admitting he's doing that worries me most of all. Obama, in most ways, has been a seamless continuation of the GW Bush administration's policies.So, I have to ask-- are you pro-war, or just another idiot, unwaveringly in support of the DNC, with no moral compass of your own? (only opposed to war when a Republican is president?)Am I being snarky? You better believe it.