Why Millennials Don't Vote and What To Do About It {aTV 007}

Originally Posted at PopularResistance.org



More than half of respondents in the survey, released by Harvard University’s Institute of Politics, said they think elected officials don’t share their priorities, and almost two-thirds said elected officials seem motivated by selfish reasons. Less than a quarter of the millennials polled said they will definitely be voting in November.
Read more: http://bit.ly/TAWHR7

On Acronym TV this week, two individuals working to fix our Democracy in crisis.

Christina Tobin is the founder and chair of Free & Equal. She has a long history of supporting ballot access, having gathered and defended over 1 million signatures for the Green Party, Constitution Party, Republican Party, Democratic Party, Libertarian Party, Socialist Equality Party and independents. Free & Equal Elections Foundation is a non-partisan grassroots organization, whose mission is to shift the power back to the individual voter through education. Their motto, “More Voices, More Choices.”

Daniel Lee is a lifelong activist. He serves on the national leadership team for the group Move to Amend, which is a coalition of hundreds of organizations and hundreds of thousands of individuals committed to social and economic justice, ending corporate rule, and building a vibrant democracy; Move To Amend is calling for an amendment to the US Constitution to unequivocally state that inalienable rights belong to human beings only, and that money is not a form of protected free speech under the First Amendment and can be regulated in political campaigns.

Democracy in the Workplace: All About Collectives

Three worker-owned businesses show what it's like to work collectively, manage a business and deal with problems in a truly democratic way. The Cheeseboard Bakery and Cheese Shop with 18 workers, Rainbow Grocery with 150 workers, and Inkworks Press with18 members, all located in the San Francisco Bay Area, are successful worker-owned businesses, and members of NoBAWC.
Margot Smith, Videomaker
www.offcentervideo.com. OffCenterVideo@aol.com

The Illegitimacy of the U.S. Government

Originally Posted at PopularResistance.org



In this episode clip (watch the full show here) Shahid Buttar outlines why he thinks the biggest enemy to the U.S. Constitution is a domestic enemy. Also, Kevin Zeese makes the point that the U.S. government is illegitimate.

“Every member of congress swears an oath of office to protect the constitution from enemies, foreign and domestic,” explains Buttar “and the principle enemy to the U.S. Constitution is a domestic one with three letters. The only debate in my mind is whether it is the NSA or the FBI.”

Kevin Zeese adds: “It’s a harsh reality for the country to face. The corporate main stream media’s job is not to give us the truth but to give us the myth that we are the greatest democracy on earth, when in fact I think the democratic legitimacy of this country is disappearing. We just had Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer make that point in his dissent to the (Supreme Court) McCutcheon decision."

Shahid Buttar is the Executive Director of the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, a 2003 graduate of Stanford Law School, and has appeared in media outlets including the Intercept, the Guardian, the Washington Post, CNN, FOX News, Al-Jazeera and the Baltimore Sun. He spoke about NSA spying at Johns Hopkins recently to a packed audience organized by the Hopkins human rights working group and the New Political Society.

Kevin Zeese is an attorney and political activist who works on peace, economic justice, criminal law reform and reviving American democracy. He co Directs It’s Our Economy, serves on the steering committees of the Chelsea Manning Support Network, and is an organizer atPopularResistance.org.

Dennis Trainor, Jr. is a writer, filmmaker, producer, and activist. His documentary on the Occupy movement, American Autumn: an Occudoc, garnered critical praise from The New York Times, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter and more.  He also wrote and directed Legalize Democracy, a documentary short about the Movement To Amend the Constitution.

On Not Voting...

Lee Camp: Your Vote WILL be stolen in 2012

And the Democrats don't give a shit. They'll probably just blame Nader, instead of blaming the rigging of our Democracy.

Why I'm a Democratic Socialist

The stories we tell ourselves are all essentially just lies that we tell ourselves so that we distract ourselves from noticing how shitty and meaningless our lives are.

I know that coming from me, a white male living in a 1st world nation, that sounds like I'm just being ignorant or bitchy about not having everything handed to me, but it's totally not the case.

I'm just recognizing what can only be described as a fact. Life is shitty. To be alive, no matter WHERE you live, is to suffer.

So let's get ethnocentric for a moment-- Here in the United States of America, we've got this narrative that we tell ourselves. That if you just work hard, do the right things, and you'll get ahead.

We go to school and school sucks, but we're told that we're supposed to endure being bored while being fed lies about Europeans who got lost and “discovered” places where people were already living, told a bunch of dates from history that have absolutely no meaning or relevance to our tiny myopic 10 year old universe, having dodgeballs hurled at our heads in gym class-- and with all of it done in shifts, like at a factory, which was designed to mentally prepare us for a life of working in all those factories that left the country 30 years ago. For our tests, we regurgitate answers without understanding them, and we accept things our teachers tell us without thinking about them. And we call that “learning.”

And it sucks, but we endure it all. In fact, we work really hard at doing well at this thing that sucks, because if we do well at this thing that sucks, it opens up this chain of possibilities for other things that suck, but supposedly lead to better things (but which in reality, also suck). If we do well in school, we're supposed to be able to get into a good university, and then we stress out and work really hard going to that university because if we do well, we supposed to be able to get a good job. And then you get a job, and you work really hard no matter how much you hate it, in the hopes of moving ahead in your career, so that eventually you'll get to a point in your life where your body is giving out, and your organs are failing, you can do all those fun things that you wanted to do in life.

But it's all a load of bullshit. We are constantly deferring our happiness today for this abstract happiness in the future which never materializes. And it's not going to either.

Well, I mean it could work out for you that you get your story book ending where you live happily ever after, but more likely than not, it's not going to work out that way. You're just going to keep suffering through the shit in front of you today, and then at the end, you just die, and it's all shit. It's just one long line of continuous shit from birth till death. Rather than getting ahead, you spend every day giving it your all just trying to keep what little you have, and then you're even losing ground, day after day, no matter how hard you work.

That procession of success we're all told to believe in is complete and utter bullshit. Some people have the right skills or the right connections and happen to be in the right spot at the right time and get lucky, but most people don't.

Some people don't go to college, walk into a street while drunk, get hit by a car, and end up with a huge settlement, and then invest it in something that makes them rich. Some people just happen to be born to the right parents. Some people just happen to be born to the wrong parents. There's just no fucking rhyme or reason to anything, and it's foolish to assume that anything in life is going to resemble ANYTHING like fairness.

Some people are able to amass huge amounts of wealth for no goddamned reason, and most people end up with little or nothing. That's how we currently organize our society. And part of that too, is that's just how life works-- some people get rewarded for doing the totally wrong thing, and some people get punished for doing everything right. Being successful in life seems to be a lot like winning the lottery-- it's just random chance, and it's totally out of your control.

Unless you happen to be born to the right parents, the parents of successful capitalists, and then you can use your money to do all your work for you. Then you can hire people to do other things for you. You can even hire people to do your hiring for you. You also get buy politicians, politicians who will change the laws to make it easier for you to do whatever the fuck you want to.

While there is abundance which can only be described as insane for a small few, that wealth is gathered by force from everybody else. And that is where poverty comes from.

So if we're living on a planet where odds are, you just happen to be born to the wrong parents, you know, parents with brown skin who live in a place without clean drinking water, how can we say, “well, there's some winners who profit from being born to rich people who use money to buy force to control natural resources and fuck other people over, and that's totally fine with me” and then call ourselves moral, or ethical?

If you subscribe to the theory that we live in a cold and uncaring universe, and that life on the planet earth is as fragile and meaningless as mold in a bathtub, you quickly realize that the world is filled with suffering FOR NO GODDAMNED REASON, and the very least that we can do is reduce the total amount of suffering on the planet by evening things out a little bit.

And that's why I'm a Democratic Socialist.

Paul Robeson School Walkout

via OccupyTVNY.org


On May 1, 2012, nearly 100 students walked out of Paul Robeson HS in Crown Heights, Brooklyn in solidarity with Occupy Wall Street's call for #MayDay and in protest of the DOE's policies at their school. They were joined by students at several other schools when they held a teach-in with community leaders at nearby Fort Greene Park.

This summer, public education advocates and recent graduates from the school are launching the Paul Robeson Freedom School: PaulRobesonFreedomSchool.org

Capitalism Isn't Working

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CAPITALISM ISN'T WORKING! (or it's working just fine, and this is how it's SUPPOSED to work).

So a couple years ago, about three years ago, I made a video called...
I actually don’t remember what it was called. I’ve deleted it. It was about Capitalism, and how I found the idea that we should be “smashing capitalism” to be infantile. One argument I made was: how would you get avocados for your vegan burrito? What would the incentive be to bringing food from that far away? Would you barter for a hemp necklace?

However, I had made a terrible mistake. Since the word “capitalism” is so propagandized, it’s come to be synonymous with a LOT of things that it has absolutely nothing to do with.

In the video I’m mentioning, I had conflated the term “capitalism” with “markets.”

In reality, capitalism actually has NOTHING TO DO WITH MARKETS. Capitalism simply means that we as a society think that it’s okay for some people who have a lot of money, to buy all the stuff, and then get even more rich simply through the fact that they own all the stuff. Capitalism necessitates abuse of labor. It is in the DNA of capitalism that labor is abused and exploited.

It is under capitalism, that a worker builds a house, and then has to pay the capitalist for the right to live in the house he built with his own hands.

It’s under capitalism that a worker makes hundreds of shoes all day, but is paid so little for his labor by the capitalist who owns the factory, that he cannot, in a day of labor, earn enough to buy a single pair of shoes for himself.

It’s under capitalism that a worker makes enough clothing in a day to clothe a neighborhood block, but is paid so little they would have to save for a month to purchase a single shirt they made through their own labor.

It’s under capitalism, that workers harvest every day from the fields the capitalist owns, enough food to feed a village, but the worker has to pay the capitalist their days wages for the right to eat a single meal’s worth.

You don’t have to think about this very hard to come to understand why so many of our brothers and sisters are homeless, shoeless, naked, and hungry. The game is rigged that way.

These things, the field, the farm, the factory, the financial institution, these are what people are talking about when they say “the means of production.”

What is the value that the capitalist provides in any of these aformentioned situations? The capitalist does no labor, and simply through owning the factory, owning the field, owning the bank, and therefore controlling the money, the capitalist is able to create even more wealth for himself by exploiting the labor of his fellow man.

At what point did we decide that THAT was a good way to organize our society?

Now, it’s often said that capitalism is an economic system. That’s a complete misnomer. Systems have closed loops and sustain themselves. Capitalism is a straight line. What do I mean by that?

Have you ever played the game monopoly? Well, monopoly and capitalism operate under very similar rules. So long as everybody has a fairly equal share of property, and the money keeps getting passed around the board equitably, the game can go on for what seems like forever. But eventually, somebody gets enough of an upper hand that you can see the game is already over. People start losing their homes in order to pay their bills. Sudden expenses come up that you can’t cover, and you start losing the very things that allowed you to participate in the game to begin with. Then slowly and surely, one person ends up owning everything, simply by the virtue of the fact that they own more stuff than anybody else to start with, and then the balance of power tips forever in their favor from that point onwards. And so eventually all the money and all the property ends up in the hands of one person. And that’s how you win Monopoly.

That’s also how you win capitalism. That’s where we’re at right now, on the precipice just before the super-wealthy end up owning every property on the game board, and all the money in the bank, while the rest of us are unable to play the game at all. To the 1%, to the Koch Brothers, I say, congratulations, you win at capitalism. Nobody else has anything. You win.
Another word that people use capitalism as a stand-in for is Democracy. Truly Capitalism and Democracy could not be further from each other in meaning.

Under capitalism, your workplace is organized in a hierarchical structure, in which one person, or a small cabal of people own everything, and reap all the profits from the labor of the workers. The workers have no input in the direction of the business, how it is run, how their fellow workers are treated, etc. If your average workplace were a government, we would readily call it fascism. So let’s call it what it is-- fascism.

Worker-owned autonomous workplaces, however, looks very different from Capitalism. Under worker-owned and operated cooperatives, the workers all share ownership of the means of production. They are all paid equally for their labor, they all share equally in the profits, they all share equally in the losses. Workers come to consensus how to run the business, and how their fellow workers are treated. If this workplace were a government, it would be called a “democracy.” Another word for democracy in the workplace, is “socialism.”

So Socialism and markets are not mutually exclusive. In fact there are many worker-owned cooperatives that you already know about and probably purchase their products regularly, like Land O Lakes butter.

Now, most workplaces are capitalist. Which means that there is little to no democracy in our economic sphere. Which means that a few are enriched through the exploitation of the labor of the many. And in a society where money is legally seen as equivalent to speech, and in practical terms is equivalent to power, it’s quite clear that capitalism CREATES a ruling class, and is the OPPOSITE of democracy.
The lack democracy in our workplaces is the ROOT CAUSE of why there is so little democracy in our governmental systems. For information how to to start your own worker’s cooperative, go to usworker.coop

The "crazy radical" that was censored by TED talks

Nick Hanauer in March of 2012:


Me, two years prior in November of 2010:


This isn't a new idea. It's just math. Capitalism is not sustainable.

Dear Cenk, You don't get it.

Dear Cenk,
You don't get it.

The idea behind direct democracy is that nobody can represent you better than you.  Why should I be representing that woman in Florida?  She should represent her.  Send a person to her house, and interview her.  Tell her story.  We are all individuals.  I don't have a right to speak on her behalf.  She should speak on her behalf.

The idea that some people are able to speak better for us than ourselves, is part of the problem with our government, and with our media.  You are lazy.  If the news actually spent money looking into how bad shit was here at home, instead of just repeating what government officials said all day long, maybe this would be a non-issue.

But it's not a non-issue.  It's very much an issue.  Why should WE be the ones to do YOUR job?  We aren't the media, you are.  You should be coming to us to learn about our struggle.

The GA's held in lower Manhattan aren't meant to represent everybody in the world.  People can hold their own GAs in their own towns and self-organize.

Peace,
The Punk Patriot

A breif and crucial history of the United States Global Empire

Turns out you CAN eat money.

But it has no nutritional value.

7 Arrested today at the Armed Services Committee Meeting

There is a media blackout on this. Please spread this as far and wide as possible.

Occupy Wall Street - How it started

DemocracyNow! Does something different than just wondering aloud on air what the fuck is going on, and engages in good-old-fashioned journalism.

Which is actually surprisingly easy to do. It involves going down to the place where something happened and then asking the people who were there.

Nonviolence and Democracy

Fascism, Democracy, and the Workplace

Things You'll Never Hear a Republican Say

Sometimes I debate Anarcho-Capitalists in gchat

They come to me, I don't seek them out:

‪Mad: Is there any objective reason why we should steal from the well off and give it to the less off, or is there only "moral" reasons?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪First- it's not stealing.  Taxes are the dues you pay to be part of the "civilization club."‬
 ‪Mad: But I never consented to that‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Well, go live in the woods‬
you don't have to pay taxes if you don't earn income
 ‪Mad: But I need income to live‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪do you?‬
 ‪Mad: Absolutely‬
For food, shelter, insurance, so forth
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Why don't you try earning a different monetary unit?‬
You're earning government money
They are federal reserve notes
those are what are taxable
 ‪Mad: The government outlaws all other forms of units‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪not really‬
 ‪Mad: Didn't you hear what happened in North Carolina?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪There are alternative currencies all over the USA‬
also bartering
time dollars
 ‪Mad: Bartering is IRS taxable‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪only if you get a recipt‬
 ‪Mad: If for example‬
I wanted to print my own US dollars
They'd arrest me
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Yeah, that would be fraudulant‬
you'd have to come up with a different currency
 ‪Mad: Which the central bankers would crush once they become viable‬
Why do you like central bankers?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I don't like central bankers.  How would the central bankers crush your alt currency, exactly?‬
 ‪Mad: Well‬
Are you aware of what happened to the Demurge currency in Austria back during the last depression?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Wikipedia's Entry on Alternative Currencies in the USA
Yes
So what?
 ‪Mad: The central banks crushed that currency‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪We don't have a central bank.‬
Our dollars are backed by Debt
 ‪Mad: Yes we do‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Not really‬
 ‪Mad: It's called the Federal Reserve‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Yeh, sort of‬
 ‪Mad: Also http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/20/us-crime-currency-idUKTRE72J46L20110320‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I understand where you're coming from with that argument, but that central bank isn't like other central banks‬
also, the State Bank of North Dakota is public, not private
 ‪Mad: Well yes, it's half the way it should be‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and has been extremely successful‬
 ‪Mad: Ideally, the private banks should just run their own currency schemes‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪not at gaining riches, but at keeping the economy out there stable‬
 ‪Mad: I want a return to free banking‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Free market banking?‬
 ‪Mad: Yes‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪But the Federal Reserve is a private entity‬
you're getting fucked by privatization right now
 ‪Mad: Well it's a quasi private public institution‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Our money supply is private‬
 ‪Mad: I want to go back to before the federal reserve‬
When it was entirely private
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪It's was actually entirely public‬
 ‪Mad: No‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪yes‬
 ‪Mad: Free Banking was entirely private‬
Wilson changed that
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Nope‬
 ‪Mad: Yes‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Sorry.‬
 ‪Mad: Before‬
States had their own currency
Along with banks
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Yes, before the fed, the currency was public‬
 ‪Mad: This was better‬
Currency was competitive
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪OH!  States had their own currency, you're talking articles of confederation style‬
Yeah, those currencies were all public too
 ‪Mad: No‬
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_banking
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪yes‬
 ‪Mad: No‬
Not all
Many currencies were private and supplied by the banks
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That's different‬
 ‪Mad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_banking#History‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That system sucked, by the way‬
 ‪Mad: Although the period from 1837 to 1864 in the U.S. is often referred to as the Free Banking Era, the term is something of a misnomer, for it refers not to a general system of "free" banking in the literal sense described previously, but rather to various state banking systems based on so-called "free banking" laws, which, though they made it unnecessary for new entrants to secure charters (each of which was subject to a vote by the state legislature), nonetheless restricted their undertakings in important ways. Most importantly, U.S. "free" banks were denied the right to establish branch networks, and had to "secure" their notes by purchasing and surrendering to state banking authorities certain securities those authorities deemed eligible for the purpose.‬
No it didn't
Why do you think it sucked?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Yes, it did.‬
Because it created bank rushes, and unstable economies
 ‪Mad: Well‬
There was some instability yes
But it was worth the price of freedom imo
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Without regulation, banks are free to fuck over their customers‬
 ‪Mad: If the customers don't like it, go to a different bank‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪But the bank could prevent you from transferring that money‬
and without any regulatory agency to go to, they could just steal from you
 ‪Mad: They could‬
But that would be bad business
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪this "freedom" you speak of is really unattractive‬
yeah, and who's going to stop them?
 ‪Mad: Customers‬
They will simply stop going there
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪how?‬
 ‪Mad: When it's known they steal‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and then lose everything they've invested in the bank?‬
 ‪Mad: Who will still go there?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪hardly‬
the bank gets away with all your money, and you get nothing
 ‪Mad: If need be, they can simply go to the branch with firearms and force them to give them back their money‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪This "freedom" sounds a lot like barbarism‬
 ‪Mad: Well no‬
It's like when a cop comes and forces them by gunpiont to do something
But now it's just the customers
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Also, how would you spend that money?‬
What if your grocery store was owned by the bank and you could only use that bank's money to buy groceries?
 ‪Mad: Go to a different grocery store‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪And the bank, free from regulation, hired a military to bomb all the other grocery stores‬
 ‪Mad: Well‬
That would be illegal
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪illegal according to whom?‬
 ‪Mad: Laws‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪There's  no government regulation‬
 ‪Mad: I'm ok with laws against murder‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪But that's regulation‬
 ‪Mad: Sure‬
I'm a minarchist, not an anarchist
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪so you agree that SOME regulation is okay?‬
 ‪Mad: In some rare circumstances yes‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That SOME regulation is required to keep society civilized?‬
 ‪Mad: Depends on how you define civilized, but yes‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Now, how is that government going to enforce that regulation?‬
If there's no revenue through taxation?
 ‪Mad: With police officers, preferably outsourced to private firms‬
They can use land taxation
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪what is to keep those police officers working in the public interest rather than the bank's interests?‬
 ‪Mad: Pay them more‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪pay them more with what?‬
 ‪Mad: Money‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪from where?‬
 ‪Mad: Or materials‬
Food, materials, slaves, etc.
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪slaves?‬
what about freedom?
 ‪Mad: Well‬
I'm not for slavery
I'ms peaking hypothetically
Many societies employed slaves
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Right, but this hypothetical one has everybody free.  So no slaves‬
 ‪Mad: And there'd be some form of taxation, land taxation, so it's voluntary‬
Alright, no slaves
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪so you support some taxation to pay for government?‬
 ‪Mad: If it's voluntary yes‬
And it's not redistributed
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪isn't hiring a police force to keep the banks from bombing grocery stores a "redistribution of wealth"?‬
 ‪Mad: In a way maybe‬
But very minimal
Just enough to keep up from barbarism
keep us*
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Now, do you really think that a bunch of poor farmers, whose raw goods are worth very little under capitalism, are going to be able to generate enough revenue using a private bank's own currency, to stop the bank from running everything?‬
by hiring a police force?
 ‪Mad: They can storm the banks themselves‬
And hold them at gunpoint
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪And with the collpase of the bank, the currency becomes worthless‬
 ‪Mad: Or tell their congressional representative that they're being unfairly exploited‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and what is to prevent the congressional representative from being in the pocket of the banks?‬
 ‪Mad: That's the point though, once a new bank forms, they'll be more ethnical‬
ethical*
They can be voted out of office
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪without regulation, banks could spend lavishly on congressional reps‬
 ‪Mad: Vote them out‬
No regulation needed
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪And they'll be replaced with more people who are in the bank's pocket‬
if not at first, then eventually
 ‪Mad: Well that's the folly of democracy in a way‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and if they decide to go against the banks, the banks will hire assassins‬
 ‪Mad: Would they not hire assassins to kill the regulators?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪they did that too‬
and the people who passed the regulations into law
 ‪Mad: But it still happened‬
So they may try
But lose
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and put their heads on pikes as a warning to others‬
 ‪Mad: Of course‬
Under a free market
There is no monopolies
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪how is that?‬
 ‪Mad: Competition‬
Kills monopolies
Only government creates monopolies
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That's not true‬
 ‪Mad: Have you heard of the Dutch East Indian Company?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I have, I know that whole story, and have read Life Inc‬
Govt creates corporate monopolies
 ‪Mad: Yes‬
Do you agree with Life Inc's analysis?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Partially‬
The thing of it is, is this:
If you allow govt and private wealth to collude, you get monopoly
if you let private power have free reign, you get monopoly too
 ‪Mad: What do you disagree with? I'm curious as to that‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪if you give the government all economic power, you get monopoly‬
I view government as on equal footing with corporations and businesses.  They are both corporate power structures.  One is run democratically, and one is run fascistically.
Governments are unions.
 ‪Mad: Where did Life Inc get it wrong though? I think he has it spot on it's government and not the free market‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Corporations are unions too‬
I think that's shallow analysis
 ‪Mad: Who's?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪to pin everything on govt‬
Life Incs analysis is this: the free market is evil, and will eat itsself alive.  If we let it run it's course, it will die.  That's not what you're arguing.
 ‪Mad: Is it?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪yes‬
 ‪Mad: I read it‬
He said government and central authority are to blame
The very same author said we should have let the banks die too (I agree), and let a new economy form
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪If you eliminate democratic government, corporate power becomes the new government‬
here's the thing-- yes, governments allow corporations to exist-- within governments.
 ‪Mad: That's fine, I want a government subject to profit/loss anyway.‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪The Dutch East Indian Company did not need permission to operate in the  USA as the government here‬
 ‪Mad: It did from the crown‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪But it didn't need it.‬
 ‪Mad: It got the permission though‬
The Crown would have killed them all
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪They could have hired their own military and had a coup against the monarchy‬
 ‪Mad: Yeah but remember‬
Government has the real power
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪the deal that was struck allowed both power structures to exist symbiotically‬
 ‪Mad: They simply let corporations run amok via long leash theory‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Business is a stateless nation‬
Corporations are stateless nations
 ‪Mad: Run very efficiently imo‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪yes, Fascism is extremely efficient‬
 ‪Mad: We agree there‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Look-- a corporation is the textbook definition of fascism‬
 ‪Mad: Then what's your solution? You said you're against government having all the economic power.‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Yes.‬
I'm a Democratic Socialist
 ‪Mad: Socialism sucks‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪No, communism sucks‬
 ‪Mad: That too‬
So, what would be your ideal economic system
Give me some details
Since "socialism" is also in the eye of the beholder
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪My ideal economic system is a mixed market economy, and a democratic socialism government and economy‬
 ‪Mad: What is a democratic economy?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪This means democratically run workplaces‬
 ‪Mad: So‬
Would you democratically run a nuclear power plant?
That sounds dangerou
dangerous*
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Actually, democratically run power plants are less dangerous‬
 ‪Mad: Which ones?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Union run ones for starters‬
 ‪Mad: Democratically running dangerous facilities is a recipe for disaster‬
Oh well
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪But it's not a recipe for disaster‬
it's far safer
 ‪Mad: Unions are only democratic nomially, many are centralized and more meritically run, which I have no problem with.‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪union run nuclear facilities are safer.  They report more incidents to regulators, and know that they are protected by both the union and the government from the corporation by whistleblower status‬
 ‪Mad: But that's not a democratically run power plant‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪yes it is‬
 ‪Mad: That's a union power plant‬
‪With it's own centralized beachwear‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪beachwear?‬
 ‪Mad: AFL-CIO and SEIU are not democracies (anymore), they've long become nominally democratic.‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That's a strawman‬
 ‪Mad: How so?‬
I don't know where beachwear came from
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Because you're attacking the organization, which is a separate entity from the workplaces in which unions exist‬
 ‪Mad: I'm not attacking them‬
I'm complimenting them
I'm against Democracy
It's inefficient
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪So you're a fascist?‬
 ‪Mad: No‬
Not really
I have some overlap though
My ideal governance system would be Singapore
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪REALLY?!‬
You should move there then
 ‪Mad: Yes really!‬
I wish I could
I'd rather help import that here though
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I do not want that at all‬
 ‪Mad: But I want to see a democratically run nuclear power plant‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪my brother is living there currently, and he says it sucks‬
there are checkpoints where you are searched by the military to make sure you don't have chewing gum
 ‪Mad: In what way does it suck?‬
Yes, what's the problem?
They need to maintain the city and make it clean
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪He went and saw a rock and roll band, and the band wasn't allowed to dance on stage‬
that doesn't sound like freedom at all
if you spit in public you get caned
 ‪Mad: That's fine‬
How else will they stop spitting?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That's not liberty‬
that sounds like the most oppressive government possible
 ‪Mad: Yes but they have great business freedom‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪fuck business freedom‬
 ‪Mad: It's the heart of an economy‬
Where would you be without corporations?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪without personal liberty and civil liberties business freedom is worthless‬
happier
 ‪Mad: Really?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I would be happier without most corporations‬
 ‪Mad: We wouldn't have any of modern civilization without it‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪yes‬
True, government is a corporation
also, Land O Lakes is a democratically run collective
it's super inefficient
everybody get's paid the same
 ‪Mad: I'm not surprised‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and nobody is fired‬
 ‪Mad: Democratically run collectives are inefficient‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and they've been around for over 100 years‬
 ‪Mad: So then, we agree democratically run workplaces are inefficient?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and manage to get their product into almost every supermarket in the USA‬
no, I was being sarcastic
 ‪Mad: Oh‬
Where would computers be
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪They run a top-notch business‬
 ‪Mad: Without corporations?‬
Land o lakes is also not a power plant though
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪you're right.  they make butter‬
 ‪Mad: Much safer‬
Democracy is fine when the worst case scenario isn't much to worry about
When it's a nuclear meltdown
Democracy sucks
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪However-- data and history prove that unionized power plants are safer‬
same with coal mines
 ‪Mad: Sure‬
I won't argue there
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Unions are mini-democracies within fascist states‬
collectives are full fledged democratic workplaces
 ‪Mad: Sort of, they're authoritarian as well nowadays, which is good‬
SEIU was recently working with Kaiser to crush a new union forming
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Anyways, i'd rather work for Land O Lakes than some corporation that's going to fuck me out of my pension‬
 ‪Mad: Where would computers be without corporations?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Where would you be without the US Govt?‬
 ‪Mad: Much happier‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Doubtful‬
 ‪Mad: No, I'm pretty sure‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪more likely you'd be in a slave camp‬
 ‪Mad: How so?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪are you rich?‬
 ‪Mad: Define rich‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪do you make more than $1,000,000 a year?‬
 ‪Mad: Oh no‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪do you make more than 100,000 a year?‬
 ‪Mad: Yes‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪well, it's no wonder that you're a fucking fascist then‬
 ‪Mad: ?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪You're on the winning side of that coin‬
I'm on the losing side
 ‪Mad: Oh well‬
That is life isn't it?
Also I'm not a fascist
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I was born poor, and since our "free market" does not actually allow for class mobility like the horatio algers fairy tales lead us to believe, I will remain poor‬
 ‪Mad: Wait‬
We have plenty of social mobility in the US
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪no we dont‬
 ‪Mad: Really? I see al ot of people move up after university‬
a lot*
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I have come out of college saddled with debt, and without a college degree‬
 ‪Mad: well what did you major in?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I cannot get a good paying job because I don't have a degree‬
I cannot get my degree because I have too much student debt
 ‪Mad: Well‬
What did you major in?
That is very important
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I cannot get more loans, because I "have not made progress towards my degree."‬
I majored in music.  That's not important.  Majors are meaningless.  It's your master's degree that's important
I would like to go on to law school.
 ‪Mad: I only have a B.S. and I'm doing very well. It matters very much what you chose to major in‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I will not be able to afford to, unless I get a full boat scholarship‬
 ‪Mad: Well‬
Why should I pay for your poor choices? No offense.
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪It would not have mattered‬
 ‪Mad: This can't be changed‬
It's the law of life
The losers stay losers unless they have will power
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪NO, its a law of capitalism‬
 ‪Mad: In life‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪the poor remain poor, and the rich remain rich‬
 ‪Mad: There's a few winners‬
and a whole lot of losers
~George Carlin
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪that's capitialsim‬
 ‪Mad: That's fine, capitalism works very well‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪If you're on the winning side, it works great for you‬
For the bottom 60% of americans, it fucking sucks
 ‪Mad: Yes, look at it from my perspective‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪We are effectively slaves‬
That is not freedom
 ‪Mad: We're successful because we worked hard, and we're being rewarded for it‬
You can stop working and go on welfare
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Hardly‬
I can barely afford to support myself now
 ‪Mad: It is not my fault their ancestors made poor decisions‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That's not freedom, or equality, or anything that America stands for‬
 ‪Mad: It is freedom‬
You have the ability to rise above your status
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪America is founded on the idea that people can create their own future, that people are all created equal, that nobody should be held to account for their father's sins‬
 ‪Mad: Well then, I wonder why we had slaves?‬
That seems like a glaring contradiction.
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪We had slaves because black people were not seen as people, they were seen as cattle‬
 ‪Mad: Yes‬
So not all men were "created" equal
Which is true
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Today, we recognize that all people are people‬
 ‪Mad: Some people are inherently superior to others‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪or at least that's the dominant paradigm‬
No, some people are born with a spear pointed at their throat, and some people are born holding the spear
 ‪Mad: No‬
Some are superior to others
Compare Albert Einstein to a Down Syndrome kid
who's superior?
I'm going with the former, given how much he contributed to society, unlike the latter, who only was a leech
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I've got to go.  It's good to know that you're a fascist.‬
 ‪Mad: I'm not‬
But I'm sorry you're angry at success
we can't have it all though
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I'm not angry at success.  I'm angry at systemic inequity‬
 ‪Mad: All societies are highly unequal‬
The strong rule over the weak
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and the idea that those who have the misfortune of being born poor should be crushed completely‬
 ‪Mad: They need us more than we need them‬
I don't think they should be crushed
Unless they try to take over
I hope we don't get a repeat of Tsarist Russia
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I do too.  Which is why social spending should not be cut‬
 ‪Mad: I disagree‬
Force of arms is enough to put them down
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪you're out of touch with reality‬
The fewer of the rich there are, the more of the poor there are.
 ‪Mad: Or middle class‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪the rich get exponentially richer‬
 ‪Mad: You're forgetting them‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪we don't have a middle class in the USA anymore‬
 ‪Mad: I'm middle class‬
We still exist
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪No you're not.‬
 ‪Mad: Oh, what am I?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Upper class.  Middle class makes 46,000 a year‬
 ‪Mad: Oh‬
Well ok, maybe so
I'm loving it though
Why should I give it up?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Nobody is saying you should give it up.‬
 ‪Mad: But I will have to‬
If more people become upper class
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪You have a right to be successful.  Not at the expense of those who put you there‬
 ‪Mad: My wealth is dispirited‬
I put myself here
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That's bullshit.  No man is an island‬
 ‪Mad: Poor welfare moms did not put me here‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪yes they did‬
 ‪Mad: Oh really?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪what do you do for a living‬
what is your trade or industry?
 ‪Mad: Stock broker (yes, I'm sure you'll think I'm evil now)‬
I'm part of the class that keeps your economy pumping
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪HAHAHAH!!!  That's bullshit, but whatever‬
 ‪Mad: Not bullshit.‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪So is there a particular field that you trade?‬
a particular market rather?
 ‪Mad: Pharmaceutical industry‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪okay‬
The pharmaceutical industry make their money by doing what?
 ‪Mad: Plus, I'm not rich, I only make 300,000 USD, which isn't that much really.‬
Creating pharmaceuticals.
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪And then?‬
 ‪Mad: Selling them‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪To whom?‬
 ‪Mad: The general public‬
The ones with insurance at least
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪And the biggest insurance provider in the USA is?‬
 ‪Mad: Probably Aetna‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪And the biggest consumer of pharmaceuticals is?‬
Actually no, it's Medicare
 ‪Mad: Oh well, yeah‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and the biggest consumer is old people‬
 ‪Mad: I was talking privately spekaing‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪who are on social security‬
 ‪Mad: speaking*‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I'm talking "real life"‬
 ‪Mad: So am I‬
I'm not against Medicare
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Right, because it makes you rich‬
 ‪Mad: Well‬
It's a needed program is it not?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Welfare moms are often on medicare.‬
 ‪Mad: No‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪sorry,‬
 ‪Mad: They're on Medicaid‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪medicaid‬
right
 ‪Mad: Which is a terrible program btw‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I agree.‬
Medicare should be expanded to cover everybody.
 ‪Mad: But if we did that‬
80% of our economy would be Medicare
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and you'd be fuckin' rolling in it‬
 ‪Mad: Maybe, but not when our economy crashes‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪our economy already crashed‬
 ‪Mad: Not for my community‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪it will soon enough‬
 ‪Mad: Not if we get the right people in‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪See, when poor white trash like me can't afford to by the things that you produce, revenue for you goes down‬
 ‪Mad: I agree‬
I wouldn't call you white trash though
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I am white trash.  I accept that.  I work in a fucking factory, and i'm effectively a college drop out (not by my choice)‬
 ‪Mad: Well‬
College isn't for everybody
 Sent at 3:03 PM on Saturday
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I would agree with that.  If we had universal education, people like me, who actually WANT to learn could go and learn and become successful without debt.‬
 ‪Mad: I think though, you would fare much better under a free market.‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Those people who think of college as a four year party binge would get kicked out, and prevent degree inflation from happening‬
 ‪Mad: Ok, but here's the rub with free universal higher ed‬
What about the people who don't utilize it well? What do we do with them?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪What do you mean?‬
 ‪Mad: Well‬
As you put it
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪The four year party people?‬
 ‪Mad: The kids who use it as a party binge?‬
Yes
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪And then they can go on to a trade school and become succesful plumbers or electricians‬
 ‪Mad: Ok sure‬
But I have to pay 4 years
Of University for those folks
That is a raw deal
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Not really.‬
In france there is an aptitude exam.  If you don't pass, you have to go to a private institution
or a trade school
 ‪Mad: Hmm‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪the thing is though, I know a woman from france who did not pass, went to trade school, and is now the captain of a research vessle, and she makes $150,000 a year, plus has 6 months off every year‬
 ‪Mad: We have plenty of trade schools here‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪*vessel‬
 ‪Mad: though a lot of them are scams‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪exactly‬
 ‪Mad: Unfortunately.‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪they are scams because they are not effectively regulated‬
 ‪Mad: I actually agree there‬
And they suck off tax dollars
Circumventing pell grants in thew rong direction
wrong*
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪absolutely‬
An instance in which socialism is bailing capitalism out
 ‪Mad: You're right‬
Still
How would we pay for it?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Taxation.‬
 ‪Mad: The Euro Zone is about to collapse‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪So is the USA‬
 ‪Mad: Tax and spend social democracy haven't been sustainable\‬
Well true
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪At the heart of both crises has been the banks funneling money upwards to the very richest few‬
 ‪Mad: I agree‬
we need to get rid of central banks
Ala Ron Paul
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I agree with that.‬
Sort of
The Gold Standard is just another arbitrary monetary unit

How to Fix Trickle Down Economics & Make It Work

 ‪Mad: Well‬
The Gold Standard is stable though
 Sent at 3:11 PM on Saturday
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪not really.  The Gold Standard artificially limits the money supply.  Plus, you still end up with the same problems.  The Fed (a private bank) doesn't print money.  It lends credit.  The Treasury prints money.  Neither the gold nor the money are worth anything.  That is a mass delusion that we all participate in.‬
 ‪Mad: Well‬
What's yoru solution? If I may ask
your*
Also
There's a flaw with your video
You're not taking into account the intellectual deficit the poor have.
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I'm poor.  Do I have an intellectual deficit?‬
 ‪Mad: No‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪and do you think that they intellectual deficit may be caused by the fact that their schools are underfunded?‬
 ‪Mad: But you're only one person‬
No
We overfund our public education system
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪also, stupid people still buy thngs‬
 ‪Mad: Triple them to inner city schools‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪that's laughable!‬
 ‪Mad: No we do‬
We throw money at problems
Thinking they'll get solved
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I grew up in a rural area.  Our shool almost collapsed financially because our town council was unwilling to raise property taxes by $1 per capita‬
 ‪Mad: What happened?‬
If I may inquire
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪We lobbied our town council ceaselessly, and they raised taxes.  And our school was saved.‬
 ‪Mad: Hmm‬
Why wouldn't they raise the 1 dollar tax?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪And nobody even noticed that extra dollar‬
They wouldn't raise it because they were Republicans who thought that all taxation was theft
 ‪Mad: Hmm‬
Well in LA
Which is run by Democrats
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Corrupt Democrats‬
 ‪Mad: They fund poor schools there quite lavishly‬
And still they're dumb kids
Perhaps they're just born stupid?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪By what standard are they dumb?‬
 ‪Mad: Lack of knowledge and reason‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That seems to me to be more of a problem with curriculum‬
 ‪Mad: And why would you assume Los Angeles politicians are corrupt (that was rhetorical)‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪if you fund a crappy curriculum and teach to standardized tests, you get standardized idiocy‬
HAHAHA
 ‪Mad: Ok what should be done?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I am not familiar with the LA school system.‬
 ‪Mad: Ok, in a broad sense‬
What would your educational strategy be?
More money?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪What I would do with any school system though, is make sure that there is an emphasis on 1) the scientific method 2) critical thinking skills 3) debate 4) civic engagement‬
Funding is secondary to curriculum
 ‪Mad: Why those four?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪because you need to teach people to think for them to learn‬
 ‪Mad: But doesn't society need burger flippers?‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I was lucky to have several teachers who challenged me to think rather than believe‬
I think that society would not collapse in the absence of burger flippers
 ‪Mad: I did too, but I went to private school‬
I think so
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I went to public school.‬
 ‪Mad: We need an intellectual devoid class to do our dirty work‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪First I disagree‬
 ‪Mad: It's kind of like our military‬
We need a class of people who are stupid and only listen to orders
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪wow, that's really dark‬
 ‪Mad: And we need the intelligent people who will give the orders, and are able to interpret them‬
Life is quite dark, I accepted this long ago
But why do you disagree?
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪What of those who are poor and intelligent who cannot afford to go to private schools?‬
And those who are stupid and rich, like George W Bush?
 ‪Mad: I believe society should make merit based scholarships‬
I wouldn't mind if the government funded them
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪That sounds like socialism‬
 ‪Mad: A bit‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪are you sure you want to redistribute the wealth like that?‬
 ‪Mad: It's a minor amount‬
Ideally, I'd want their parents to pay on their own
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Why should you steal from the stupid rich people who can AFFORD to go to private schools just to pay for poor people?  They shouldn't have been born poor.  End of story, right?‬
 ‪Mad: But if they can't, and their child is truly deserving, sure. But most children are pretty dumb, so it'll be of lowe cost‬
Ideally I agree
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪Wow.‬
 ‪Mad: Their parents are responsible for their poverty‬
But I agree there's exceptions
As few as they may be
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪And their parents's parents are responsible for their parents's poverty.‬
Etc
etc
 ‪Mad: Yes‬
Punk Patriot: ‪ ‬ ‪I've really got to go.‬
 ‪Mad: If they're deserving‬
Alright
I'm not an idealist though, I'm a free market advocate by principle, with some exceptions

LePage's Voter Suppression Bill: Chellie Pingree on Rachel Maddow

The bill to eliminate same-day registration is aimed to suppress the vote, particularly of working people and young people.

Hey Progressives! The DNC is crowd-sourcing. This is a good time to make demands.

So the DNC is polling it's base to see where people's hearts and heads are at.

This is a really good time to make demands of the party. Here's what I wrote in. I encourage you to do likewise by clicking here.

No matter what you do, you will be called a socialist. Which is absurd, given the policies and staff of the Obama administration so far.

But you know what? A majority of Americans think that socialism is a good thing. So why not do socialist things, and win the votes of the majority?

Fight for the following:

* A minimum wage that is indexed to the cost of living

* Single Payer Healthcare

* Universal College Tuition

* Raising income taxes on the richest, and bringing back the inheritance tax.

* Ending the wars and bringing our troops home.

* Tobin Tax on Derivatives trades and hedges and naked short selling

* A new Works Progress Administration, for REAL Green Energy, not baloney like "Clean Coal" which still kills thousands of people during the mining process.

* Gov't loans for people who install solar panels or wind turbines, to be paid back via the difference in energy savings.

* Gov't grants for weatherizing homes- not tax credits (tax credits only go to those who have the money to spend to start with, and the poorest are the ones who most need to weatherize their homes).

* A ban on Mountaintop Removal mining.

* A constitutional amendment ending corporate personhood.

If you fight for this, and ask the people of the USA to elect a congress that will give this platform to you, you will win back the congress in 2012, and hold the white house, by a landslide.

You can do so by clicking here